CARACAS, Venezuela –– To celebrate Columbus Day, a holiday here as well as in the United States, Venezuela's controversial president, Hugo Chavez, set off to
tour the countryside. At the wheel of a Jeep, he argued vociferously that he has been misunderstood by the foreign media. He said that he is leading a revolution to
improve the lives of the majority of Venezuelans, while rejecting the notion that he is an autocrat trying to centralize power in his own hands, as many claim.

The 46-year-old Chavez, who took office in February 1999, also has attracted attention recently for his growing influence in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting
Countries (OPEC), which held its 40th anniversary meeting in Caracas last month. During the Columbus Day tour, where he was mobbed by crowds wherever he
went, Chavez laid out his blueprint for Venezuela's future and discussed his OPEC role in a wide-ranging interview with Lally Weymouth, a Newsweek contributing
editor and Washington Post columnist. Excerpts:

Weymouth: What's your vision for your country?

Chavez: We are in the midst of the process of change--giving birth to a new political system, because representative democracy is not really good for us.

Why not?

Because it failed completely here in the past. Party leaders who said they represented the people betrayed them. Now we are creating a democracy which is
representative of all the sectors of society . . . . I want you to [understand] the battle we are waging.

That's what you're doing?

We could discuss whether we should call it a battle. But it's a revolution.

Why did you go visit [Iraqi President] Saddam Hussein against U.S. advice?

For the same reason that I went to visit President Wahid [of Indonesia], Gaddafi [leader of Libya], King Fahd [of Saudi Arabia], President Obasanjo [of Nigeria],
President Khatemi [of Iran]. The idea was to reconstitute OPEC, which was very weak, put it at the service of our peoples and assure the consumer countries that
OPEC will continue working to ensure a dialogue in seeking a fair and balanced price for oil.

You've said you want to keep the price of oil between $22 and $28 a barrel. Do you want to increase production or raise the price of oil? What is your oil strategy?

Our strategy is one of balance between supply and demand, between the price of the raw material--oil--and the taxes on it imposed by the most developed
countries. We want balance and justice. As you have said, we have proposed a band of prices between $22 and $28. I want the consumer countries to understand
that the price per barrel does not depend only on OPEC. It depends on many other factors--the middlemen, the speculators, the other producing countries that are
not members of OPEC but produce more than 50 percent of the world's oil.

Are you going to nationalize private property?

No. That's not anything we're talking about.

You have criticized the United States. You have prohibited [American] anti-drug overflights and turned back U.S. aid during the recent floods, saying you did not
want U.S. soldiers in Venezuela. What kind of relationship do you want with the U.S.?

We want to have the best relations not only with the United States but with all the governments of the world, based on mutual respect. For example, in the case of the
overflights, what would be the opinion of President Clinton if President Chavez asked for permission to conduct overflights over Washington with our Mirage and
F-16 jets? We cannot forget about our laws or [allow the U.S. government] to violate our sovereignty. During the tragedy in Vargas [the mudslides and floods of
December 1999], I personally accepted four Blackhawk helicopters with American pilots and military and civilian crews and doctors. When we heard that a group
of U.S. Army engineers was coming to help us, we simply told them "many thanks" but that wasn't what we needed.

People in the U.S. are wondering about your statement that "Plan Colombia" [the drug-fighting program, which includes $1.3 billion in U.S. aid and equipment]
would lead to another Vietnam. We in the United States are worried about the situation in Colombia. Do you share our concern?

If Washington is worried, it will never be quite the same [level of] concern we have in Caracas. We are terribly affected by the war in Colombia. Peasants have been
kidnapped or murdered; there is terror on the border. It is a lawless land. We want peace. But peace cannot be achieved with 80 Blackhawks or with military
trainers, but by dialogue. So it is a terrible mistake that the governments of the United States and Colombia are making. We are warning that the conflict could
escalate and become another Vietnam.

People talk about how much power you have accumulated since you were elected. You have changed the constitution and it looks like you're centralizing power. Is
that a correct perception?

I think your question is based on totally false premises. Some sectors, out of ignorance or prejudice, keep saying that in Venezuela there is a process of concentration
of power underway, a process going toward authoritarianism. The truth is that the contrary is happening. We are doing away with an authoritarian model that was
disguised as a democracy. In the name of democracy, power was concentrated in the hands of a very few. Now we have set forth a process of decentralization, a
really democratic process. You said I changed the constitution. You are mistaken. It's not me who has done it. It was done by the people. Once I was elected
democratically, I convened a referendum and asked the people, "Do you want a constituent assembly to draft a new constitution?" And 95 percent of them said yes.
We are doing away with the tyranny of a small elite.

[At that point, Chavez called over 16-year-old Carlos Navarro, who was walking along the road.

Chavez to Navarro: Even though you didn't participate directly in the election, why did grown-ups elect Chavez president?

Navarro: Because Chavez is very popular with the poor people.]

What is your attitude toward the media? You've criticized some members of the media, and they are worried because the new constitution says information must be
"accurate." Accurate by whose standards?

The question comes with a kind of poison. As to accurate information, that was a sovereign decision of the Venezuelan people.

What are you going to do about the economy? Last year it was down 7 percent. Don't you have to revive the economy and the private sector?

Look, the Venezuelan economy has been declining for the past 20 years. Now the economy has begun to recover. We grew 2.6 percent during the first half of this
year. And this [gesturing toward new construction in the town of Macuro] is growth--construction of houses, roads, schools, hospitals. We're creating a new
economic model which is democratic, diversified, productive, competitive, based on petroleum and [natural] gas. . . .

Don't you need to attract private capital from abroad?

Of course we need to, and it's coming.

You just made a deal with Fidel Castro and agreed to sell him oil. What do you think of Castro?

He's a president I respect, just as I respect Clinton.

Do you want to make Venezuela more like Cuba? You have said Cuba was "a sea of happiness."

I didn't say that. What I said on one occasion is that Cuba and Venezuela are going toward the same sea of happiness. That is valid, and I can say that Cuba, the
United States, Colombia, Brazil, Ecuador, Venezuela and Jamaica are all going toward the sea of happiness because we want a new world of justice, of equality.

How long is it going to take to succeed with your revolution?

It is succeeding already. Every little grain of sand goes toward building the mountain. [Here in Macuro there is a new] road. And schools for the kids,
telephones--they didn't even have a telephone line [before]. That's a success. It's like love. You have to make love every day in many ways. Sometimes carnally,
sometimes with your eyes, sometimes with your voice. A revolution is love.

Do you have any thoughts on the conflict in the Middle East?

Yes. First of all, of course, we support the Palestinian cause. [We ask] for the Palestinian state to be recognized. After all, we are brethren. . . .

You were born in the countryside and later became a soldier. You tried but failed to carry out a coup. And then you went to jail. Which of these events formed your
thinking?

My ideas come from a long time ago. They come from having been born in the countryside, in a house with a thatched roof and an earthen floor. When I was 5 years
old, I started to plant corn and look for wood so that my grandmother could cook. I had to go with my father in the wee hours of the morning to help him fish to be
able to eat and live. I went out in the public square to sell sweets that my grandmother baked so I would have money to buy shoes and notebooks and pencils.

Why did you decide you wanted to lead this country?

In 1989, we had a popular rebellion against then-president Carlos Andres Perez, a corrupt president. People went into the streets and this so-called democratic
government answered with guns and rifles. Over 1,000 people were massacred. That led to the [attempted] coup of 1992. We had two alternatives as soldiers:
Continue massacring our people on the orders of a tyrant dressed as a democrat, or aim the rifles against him. We made the decision to rebel. Bolivar said, "Damned
be the soldier who turns his weapons against his own people."

                                                   © 2000 The Washington Post