MSNBC
January 12, 2000
 
 
Interview with Elian’s grandmother
 
Woman says 6-year-old should be returned


                                                              By Mary Murray
                                                        NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT

                           CARDENAS, Cuba, Jan. 12 — NBC correspondent
                           Mary Murray interviewed Raquel Rodriquez,
                           Elian’s maternal grandmother, on Wednesday.
                           Raquel Rodriquez demanded the 6-year-old
                           boy’s return. Here is a transcript of the
                           interview.

                         Tell me what kind of boy your grandson Elian is.
                                He’s an active kid, like all children. He loves to play.
                         He likes school because he’s very bright. He’s a picky
                         eater. ... He loves to play. He loves cartoons. The boy is
                         always on the go.

                                Ever since he was very little?
                                He’s always been like this. Active and really happy.
                         His eyes say it all. He’s very alert.

                                What kind of relationship did he have with his
                         mother, Elizabet?
                                They were really close. He called her “Mi Mamita
                         Linda” (My beautiful Mommy). He wouldn’t go to bed until
                         she was also ready. If she was doing something, he waited
                         for her. He’d ask her, “Mommy, are you almost done?” He
                         was really close to her. She was his “Mamita Linda.”
                         Whenever she scolded him, he’d say “Oh, Mi Mamita
                         Linda, I won’t do it again.”

                                How does Elian seem to you? Is he the same little
                         boy who left?
                                His eyes are really sad. He’s withdrawn, as if he’s
                         trying to be invisible. His eyes are so very, very sad. He’s
                         not the little boy with the sparkling eyes who lived here.
                         He’s so sad. He’s seems to be frightened by all the
                         cameras, the lights, the microphones.

                                 How does he seem when you speak with him by
                         phone?
                                He seems to be normal; then you realize someone is
                         standing over him, telling him what to say. And he answers
                         just “yes” or “no,” depending on what they’re signaling him.

                                Does he speak to you about his mother?
                                No. Not with me. And I don’t mention her either. He
                         has with his dad, though.

                                What did he say?
                                He described everything he saw. About his mother.
                         How she drowned.

                                But he still hasn’t mentioned her to you?
                                No. Not to me.

                                This is very difficult for you?
                                It seems that, as young as he is, he understands because
                          he used to ask my daughter what I was to her. And she would
                          tell him that I’m her mother. And he would ask the same about
                          his grandfather. And she would say that he’s her father. Kids
                         ask about everything at his age.

                                How have you been coping these last six weeks?
                         You’ve lost your daughter and are separated from
                         your grandson.
                                It’s really sad. It’s really painful. I’m the one suffering
                         the most. I’ve lost my only daughter, and he’s my only
                         grandson. I’m very affected by this.

                                Do you think that Elian’s return will help you
                         recover from the loss of your daughter?
                                Yes. It’ll be different with him here. The concerns will
                         be different. I’ll worry about him at school. What he’s
                         doing. What he wants for lunch. Who’s going to pick him
                         up at school? Life will take on a different rhythm.

                                Are you very worried about him? He’s seems to
                         be OK, well cared for. Living with relatives.
                                But it’s not the same. He only met those people once
                         before. They came here last year for two weeks. There’s no
                         family ties with them. He’s with them but he’s lost his
                         mother and has to depend on somebody. And that
                         somebody is them. So whatever they tell him to do, he has
                         to do. He has no one else there. He doesn’t have us. His
                         father isn’t there. He’ll never see his mother again.

                                How would you describe Elian’s relationship with
                         his dad?
                                They have a great relationship. They’re very close.
                         Juan Miguel would spend his days off from work with Elian.
                         He’d take him to school, pick him up at lunchtime and bring
                         him back for the afternoon session. He’d pick him up again
                         at the end of the day and take him back to his house to
                         spend the night. Elian wouldn’t take a bath unless his dad
                         was with him. He wouldn’t get his haircut unless his dad
                         was with him. He is very close to his dad.
                                It’s almost an obsession — he with his dad, and his
                         dad with him.

                                What was the relationship like between Juan
                         Miguel and Elizabet?
                                It was very good.

                                Even after the divorce?
                                The divorce didn’t really affect their relationship. They
                         got along like sister and brother. They continued to talk.
                         They understood each other very well. When their son got
                         sick, they would decide who would take him to the doctor.
                         They got along great, like brother and sister. He loved her
                         like a sister and she respected him as the father of her child.
                         Their feelings for each other came from the fact that they
                         were childhood sweethearts since they were 14. When you
                         know someone that long, they become part of your family.

                                They were childhood sweethearts.
                                Yes, since they were teen-agers.

                                Let me ask you something that might be hard to
                         answer. With that kind of relationship, how could
                         Elizabet have taken the child without telling him?
                                It wasn’t like that. I think something else was going on.
                         I think she was tricked. I think she didn’t even know she
                         was going. She was tricked. There was no reason for her to
                         leave. She never ever talked about leaving.

                                She never mentioned it?
                                Never. In fact she was a chambermaid and kept
                         meeting foreigners who’d ask her if she would like to visit
                         their countries sometime. And she always said she couldn’t
                         stand being away from home even for a week. or two.

                                Did she complain about anything?
                                What do you mean?

                                About life.
                                About nothing. She worked. She was an average
                         person. She lived fine. She had everything she needed. She
                         had her child and her parents. What else could she possibly
                         ask for?

                                Did she make enough money to cover her
                         expenses?
                                She had a good salary. She was paid well.

                               Well, actually, your house has pretty much
                         everything. So, what do you think happened to
                         Elizabet?
                                I think what I just told you. I think she was tricked. He
                         tricked her. He told her they were going somewhere else.
                         What do I know? Camping or something. I don’t know
                         what he told her, but I can’t imagine Elizabet getting on
                         some rickety boat and actually taking the boy with her. It’s
                         not possible.
                                But it happened. They left. She got on the boat. It
                         had motor problems. They came back to port and left
                         again. They actually left twice.
                                That’s true but I insist that she was tricked. And apart
                         from being tricked, she was pressured.

                               What kind of a person was her boyfriend?
                                It’s really hard to talk about him. It’s so distasteful. I
                         don’t even want to talk about that man.

                               Did you have problems with him even before this
                         happened?
                                I never liked him. I don’t want to talk about him.

                               They took a big risk, especially with a small child
                         such as Elian.
                                That was because he put a lot of pressure on her. I’m
                         convinced of it. I know her well. I knew very well what she
                         was and wasn’t capable of.

                               But are you saying she was weak? People are
                         describing her as someone with a strong personality.
                                Yes. She was a withdrawn person, not very
                         expressive. She was very decent.

                               What did she want for Elian?
                                In what way? By leaving with him?

                               Exactly. Why did she want to leave? Why did she
                         leave with him? Do you, as her mother, have some
                         insight into why she left in the end?
                                I can’t imagine what she was thinking of. I don’t know
                         what was going on in her head at that moment. Especially
                         considering the condition people say the boat was in. Over
                         there the politicians and senators are saying that the boy
                         should stay because that was his mother’s wish. What wish?
                         What do they know about what she wanted? I’m the one
                         who knows. I’m her mother. I was the one who carried her
                         for nine months in my womb! I raised her! I brought her up!
                         Who are they to say they know what my daughter wanted!
                         They don’t respect her wishes!
                                 Because what she would want now, after her death, is
                         that her child come back to us — not be over there with
                         them. They are harming him. What good are they doing?
                         They don’t respect what she wanted. And she won’t be
                         able to rest in peace until her child is returned to us! Her
                         soul won’t ever be at rest if the child is not returned. Did
                         they know her? Do they know under what conditions she
                         got on that boat? Nobody knows. Just the child who’s only
                         6 and can hardly speak about it. And the other two
                         survivors won’t talk, and someone’s paying them to keep
                         silent. They know the whole story or part of it. People are
                         making a big deal about my daughter, talking about her last
                         wish and parading my grandson around with a picture of
                         her. A photo that was taken from this room. Every journalist
                         whose come here has wanted to see Elian’s bedroom. And
                         I had this photo of his mother leaning against the dresser
                         mirror. They photographed the picture. Then they
                         reproduced it in the shape of a heart, stuck it on a placard
                         and had the child hold it to symbolize her dying wish. What
                         dying wish? They don’t respect anything!
                                And that family over there. They’ve offended and
                         insulted me. What good could they want for the child? If
                         they were at all interested in his needs, that boy would
                         already be home — considering everything he’s been
                         through and is going through. I’m the only one who can
                         speak for my daughter. I’m the one who knew her.”

                               Who was she?
                                She was a normal decent person. A simple person,
                         modest in the way she dressed and in everything she did.
                         Elizabet never once thought about leaving home. She was
                         tricked and pressured. I’m absolutely sure of that.

                               A good mother?
                                A really good mother. A good daughter. A good
                         person. She treated people well. And her family too.

                               Didn’t she ever talk about wanting more things?
                         A better house. A car. A swimming pool. The kinds of
                         things people dream about.
                                Not her. She never had those fantasies. She was
                         content with what she had. She even said this house was
                         too big for us with its three bedrooms. I can guarantee you
                         that she didn’t lack anything.

                               People are saying that she was looking for
                         freedom.
                                What freedom? What persecution? Who was
                         persecuting her? Ask anyone on the block. Ask anyone at
                         her job. Who was persecuting her? Nobody. Who was
                         persecuting the child? Nobody. Nobody here was ever
                         persecuting either of them. Freedom of what? It’s all a big
                         lie.

                               Why are they lying?
                                Because they’re liars. Because they lie. Nobody ever
                         persecuted her. She never got in any trouble. She never
                         went to jail. Who would do that to her? No one’s ever
                         bothered us.

                               So why is the family there saying those things?
                                Because they want to keep Elian, to get rich at the
                         child’s cost. That’s what they’re up to. That’s why they
                         won’t give us back the child. That’s why they claim the
                         mother was seeking freedom, that it was her last wish. What
                         freedom? Did they know her? They never met her. They
                         never talked to her. They never even saw her. But they talk
                         about her seeking freedom.

                               Did you know that yesterday a camera apparently
                         caught Eliancito shouting to a plane flying overhead,
                         “Take me back to Cuba”?
                                No.

                               Does that surprise you?
                                No. I’m not surprised. I spoke to him yesterday, last
                         night. We called him from here. His father. Mariela, his
                         other grandmother. We asked him, “Elian, how are you
                         feeling?” because he had a bad cough. “No, grandma. I’m
                         okay.” Then I told him that Nina was sad. He asked,
                         “What’s wrong with Nina?”

                               Who is Nina?
                                His dog. I told him, “Nina isn’t drinking her milk. She’s
                         refusing to eat.” “Grandma, why?”
                                “Because she misses you. She wants you to come
                         home. To play with you. Like before. To lie down with you.
                         To play on the floor with you. To chase you around.” Then
                         his father told him his room was ready. His bed and bike
                         were there. He asked if he wanted anything else in his room.
                         The boy said he wanted a desk and chair to do his
                         homework. His dad asked him if he wanted to come back
                         and he said “yes.” He wanted to see his dad. Then his father
                         asked him if he wanted to hug him, “I like the way you do
                         it.” And he said “yes” and he told his father that he’s been
                         dreaming about him.

                               What hopes do you have for Eliancito?
                                That he’s back here with us so we can help him forget
                         everything he’s been through. That horrible tragedy. With
                         the help of his father and all his grandparents he can put it
                         behind him, including everything he’s going through now. So
                         he’ll be a kid like any other one. Just a normal kid who’ll
                         study and one day have a profession. It’s what every
                         parent, every grandparent wants. The best for their children.
                         And that he lives here with us. Because I promise: His
                         mother will not rest in peace until he’s back in Cuba. When
                         she knows he’s back in Cuba with me, his grandfather, his
                         dad and his other grandparents, that’s when she’ll finally be
                         at peace.

                               What do you think the outcome will be?
                                I hope it’ll be over quickly. They can’t drag it out much
                         more. The boy is suppose to be back on the 14th. That
                         decision was already made. He’s to be back on the 14th
                         and be handed over to his father.

                               Do you think the family there will hand him over?
                         Is that the impression you’ve gotten when you’ve
                         talked to them?
                                I don’t know because they’ve done so many things
                         already. They’ve stooped so low that they’re now grasping
                         at what supposed to have been the mother’s last wish. And
                         that’s why they’re keeping the boy there.

                               Have you discussed this with them?
                                I’m not talking to them anymore because, once when I
                         was talking to the child, the uncle got on the phone and
                         insulted me. He tried to humiliate me and I’m not going to
                         subject myself to that kind of treatment. I’ll only talk to the
                         child.

                               He insulted you on the phone?
                                Yes.

                               What happened?
                                No. I don’t want to talk about it. It’s not what
                         concerns me now. I only what the child brought home.

                               And you think that’s really what would have been
                         his mother’s last wish?
                                Clearly. If she knew what was going to happen, she
                         would have wanted her son back here with us. Not to be
                         with strangers. He’s suffering and she won’t rest in peace as
                         long as she sees her son suffering.

                               One last question: Why do you still have your
                         Christmas tree up?
                                I’m not taking it down until he comes home. I have
                         hope and faith in his returning by the 14th. And when he’s
                         here I’ll take it down after we have our own Christmas.
                         Because we haven’t been able to celebrate it yet. What
                         greater joy could I have than the child coming home? It’ll be
                         Christmas for the whole family, not just for the child.
                         Because we’re a very close-knit family.